more-light-less-dark asked: You mentioned you were a vegetarian for 8 years, right? How did it take you **8 years** to figure out what was wrong with the dairy/ egg industry?? It always surprises me how people can be a vegetarian so long without switching. It only took me 8 months [even though I know even that is long to some!]. Not attacking, just genuinely curious. :]
I really wish I knew. I went vegetarian when I was 12 after bawling my eyes out at some PETA videos. I’d always loved animals, and I realized that if I wouldn’t eat my dog, I shouldn’t eat any other animal.
After being vegetarian for a while and people would ask if i ever planned on going vegan, I remember things coming out of my mouth like “But cows actually need to be milked. If they aren’t milked, it’s painful for them!” (loliknow), and I remember thinking that chickens just laid eggs no matter what anyway, so why bother avoiding them? Everyone always agreed with me and I’d never even so much as encountered a vegan. I thought of vegans as crazy, people who couldn’t eat anything, etc. etc. All the same nonsense we hear now came out of my mouth at one point, I’m sure.
I guess I didn’t really realize that the meat and dairy/egg industries are separate entities and that animals are deliberately exploited and harmed for their products just as much as their meat. I never thought about the fact that animals aren’t property, and I really had an entirely different mindset towards animals when I was a vegetarian. I thought it was okay for them to be confined and farmed so long as they weren’t actually killed. This is why I think it’s insane that vegetarians try to say they are on the same page as vegans, because they really aren’t.
Then about a year or so before my veganism, I kind of started hearing more about vegans, but I tried to justify it with the bullshit above about cows needing to be milked and eggs being laid no matter what and how I just loved cheese too much and wah wah wah. Everything I loathe now, I was the epitome of back in the day.
I suppose it was a result of me being so young when I went vegetarian and I never felt the need to look further into it. It wasn’t until I saw Gary Yourofsky’s speech on youtube that I fully understood what veganism was actually about or why it was important. Hence why I make a point to tell vegetarians why it isn’t sufficient, because I wish someone had done so for me. But I should have stopped making excuses and made a point to educate myself. I know that it was ultimately my own fault, and I can’t blame my ignorance on anyone else but myself. I’m really ashamed that it took me 20 years to smarten up and stop being selfish.
pointlesspondering asked: While being vegetarian, I always had the nagging feeling that I was a hypocrite. How could I say that I was an animal rights supporter if I ate eggs which came from chickens that would be killed after they were no longer useful? How could I support the dairy industry that cast aside cows like so much useless machinery? I then slowly phased everything out and went vegetarian to vegan in 6 months. I think vegetarianism is great, but that people should realise the egg and dairy industries suck.
Yeah, I definitely agree. Although I think 6 months is a really long time and it can be done in a much shorter period of time, it’s great that you finally made the switch. I feel like a lot of people are just very hesitant to give up foods like cheese and eggs and whatnot (I know this from personal experience), so we end up taking much longer to transition than we really need to. I wouldn’t say vegetarianism is great, but I’d say it’s a step in the right direction. However, it does no good for the animals if you get stuck with your foot in the door and never fully make the transition.
Even though the dairy/egg industries themselves are horrendous, it goes far beyond the industries themselves. Even just small farms or people who have a few cows or chickens still look at those animals in ways that are oppressive. They have them for the sake of taking from them and believe that animals are our property to use as we please. Animals do not exist to live out their lives providing for us, and they are worth so much more than just what we can get from them. Without respecting an animal’s freedom and rights to their own bodies and individuality, you cannot claim that you love and care about animals. Animal rights and vegetarianism are not compatible in any way, shape, or form.
I can’t even talk to that girl anymore. Selective reading at it’s finest. You can’t just pick out some parts of my reply, twist the words, and ignore the rest. Plus, the whole “Vegans don’t think they are better than anyone else BUT Meat eaters and vegetarians are shitty people and i don’t respect them.” made absolutely no sense at all. She obviously doesn’t respect me and looks down on me because I’m only a vegetarian, so why even bother?
AND THE KICKER IS, she says she wants animal liberation and lectures people on it but she OWNS PETS. Sorry, but I just can’t.
Point is, Vegans and Vegetarians should NOT be putting each other down. We should be working together for the animals. Sure, some people still eat dairy and dairy is bad but some people just can’t do veganism. Some people take a while to transition. Some people eat free range, or buy from local farmers that in no way harm their animals. But at least they are TRYING to make some kind of a difference.
It’s like saying, oh you can’t support LGBT rights if you arent LGBT because you aren’t actually helping the cause because you aren’t gay/lesbian/etc. Or a man can’t support womens rights because he isn’t a woman and it does nothing to directly help the cause. It’s the most ridiculous thing i’ve ever heard.
I entirely agree.
I never even thought of taking the transition to veganism to be honest. I didn’t realise vegetarianism was this stepping stone to being a vegan.
I’m considering it now purely because being lactose intolerant it would probably force me to stop giving my body lactose which in turn I throw up/feel sick haha.
Still, she was extremely rude to your points and ridiculously selective. To be honest it doesn’t bother me because it really shows how narrow minded she is.
THE KICKER IS, I DON’T OWN ANIMALS. THEY LIVE WITH ME. And the reason they live with me is because they came from kill shelters or situations of desperation and needed to be rescued or else they would be killed. I do not support the breeding of pets or buying animals whatsoever. But until the homeless domesticated animal population isn’t out of control and animals aren’t dying or being neglected without being adopted, I’ll continue to advocate adoption and take care of animals in need. Seriously, how is that such a difficult concept? There is a vast difference between taking in animals that need you and will die without you versus supporting animal domestication and the breeding of pets to perpetuate human domination of animals.
ALSO, HEY, DEEPINMADNESS. You’re the one who specifically told me you refused to read my post, and then you accuse me of selective reading and claim that’s horrible? What in the fuck? How is that logical by any means?
Hahaha. What are you guys even talking about, seriously? No, it’s not like a man saying he supports women’s rights, or a straight ally to the gay community. Want an accurate analogy? It’s like a man who beats his wife, or a man who rapes women, saying “I support women’s rights!” His actions are an obvious contradiction to what he’s saying he supports, therefore it’s ridiculous. Just like “vegetarians for animal rights.” Your analogy would only work if I told you “you’re not a cow so how can you support animal rights?!?” You guys are fucking juvenile, that’s for sure.
Oh, and to address you two criticizing my income spent on food in your asks: It’s called being broke. It isn’t ideal by any means and I’d love to spend more on food if I could, but I don’t have the income to allow it. Why is that so hard for you to believe? My point in telling you that is to prove that a lack of money is not an excuse to ignore basic ethics.
If you’d actually read my posts, deepinmadness, you’d also know that I said I supported vegetarians who were transitioning into veganism, because at least those people acknowledge that vegetarianism is merely a transitional phase and not a solution to animal abuse. It’s vegetarians who claim that dairy and eggs are perfectly fine that I have a problem with, because they’re on the same exact page as those who eat meat and claim it’s perfectly okay.
One last thing. There is no such thing as humane dairy or eggs, or any animal product. Regardless of the treatment of the animal, it is still produced through the exploitation and enslavement of an animal. Not to mention, cow’s milk is for calves, not for humans. The only way to produce dairy is to take calves from their mothers and deprive them of their milk; there is no humane way to do that. If you actually supported animal rights, you’d know that already.
Here’s a rant I’ve wanted to make all fucking day;
All you fucking vegans who think you’re better than vegetarians need to back the fuck off.
You don’t have ANY animal products? God you’re just perfect.
Us weakling vegetarians can’t REALLY love animals cuz I mean, we’re still having SOME of their products right?
Fuck off.
Vegans and Vegetarians should walk hand in hand. We should be trying to help people see where their meat comes from, how to live healthy without it, to stop animal abuse etc. Not fucking bag eachother out whether someone has milk or not.
I don’t think I’m better than a meat eater because I don’t eat meat. That’s their choice - if they know where their meat comes from and choose to eat it, then that is their choice! (Obviously it’s sad and awful for animals, but all you can do is educate).
So; vegans who think they’re better than vegetarians - go find someone who cares. Cuz even us vegetarians are getting fucking sick of hearing you run your mouth about it.
Yeah, well vegans are sick of you vegetarians going on and on about how much you love to “stop animal abuse” and “educate people where their meat comes from,” but then when vegans try to educate YOU or tell you to stop abusing animals through your dairy and egg consumption, you go apeshit. Please, do tell — how are you any different than a belligerent meat-eater who is screaming that they love bacon and don’t care about animals as soon as a vegan or vegetarian tells them about the cruelties of the meat industries? Yeah, you’re not.
Vegetarians and meat-eaters ultimately have the same exact mindsets when it comes to how they view animals. You believe that animals exist for humans to exploit and dominate, and you think that their suffering is not worth your concern. You think your taste buds are more important than their freedom and their rights to life. Because if you truly were a vegetarian for animal rights reasons and your goal was to stop animal abuse, you would look into the dairy and egg industries and see that every ounce of milk and every single egg comes from an exploited and most likely abused animal. You can’t claim that you’re trying to stop animal abuse when you are still blindly consuming products that are direct results of cruelty and then whine about vegans because we simply call you out on your hypocrisy.
Your rant above is like a meat-eater saying “Omivores can’t really love animals because we only eat SOME ANIMALS, not all of them, right?!?!? I only eat chicken and pigs but not cows but I love animals because NOT EVERYONE CAN BE PERFECT OK???” No. It doesn’t work that way. If you want to be an animal rights supporter, then support their fucking rights and stop viewing them as items to use and consume. Vegetarianism does not support animal rights and it does not aim to end animal suffering. Vegetarianism still contributes to animal abuse, exploitation, and more suffering than most meat, even. Stop crying about vegans telling you you’re wrong and actually look into what we’re saying to you, and maybe you’ll finally get it.
This is really stupid and annoying. And this is why vegetarians and vegans have a bad reputation. I’m a vegetarian (for 10 years now) and an animal rights activist. Eventually, I will make the transition in to veganism, but right now I just can’t afford it. I don’t drink milk and rarely eat eggs. I don’t wear leather or fur. I don’t use products tested on animals. Acting like being a vegetarian doesn’t have any impact on animal rights is just ignorant. And how in the world do vegetarians cause more animal suffering that meat eaters? It’s like you’re telling us it should be all or just go back to eating meat since were supposedly not helping anyways, which is just ludicrous. I do not think I am better than ANYONE, not even meat eaters. I do heavily disagree with their lifestyle, but I don’t like others opinions being shoved down my throat, so I’m not going to shove my opinion down someone elses throat out of respect. I agree with the OP. Vegetarians and Vegans need to unite, not fight. Fighting is just making us look weak. We are all trying to fight for the same cause and that should be what matters. Just because one goes a little bit further doesn’t mean they are any better.
No, vegans have a bad reputation because animal abusers are selfish fucks who can’t get over their own desires and think of animals as dirt. Me telling you that vegetarianism is not compatible with animal rights doesn’t “give vegans and vegetarians a bad reputation.”
Again, never did I claim I was better than anyone. Actually, vegetarianism does mean you believe you are better than others. If you think that your desires for milk or eggs outweigh animals’ desires to live freely, then you are placing yourself above them. Veganism is the principle of not valuing your life and wants as more important than anyone else’s. Viewing animals as individuals rather than items of mass production is what veganism is about, not superiority. Superiority exists within mindsets of people who think that animals exist to serve them (i.e. vegetarians and meat-eaters).
Like I told your outrageous friend, I was a vegetarian for 8 years before I realized it essentially does nothing to support animal rights. How can you claim to support their rights, yet believe that their bodies and lives are ours to manipulate and take products from? How can you claim that calves should be killed and stolen from their mothers so you can get their milk? How is thinking that animals exist to be confined and exploited by people supporting animal rights? It just doesn’t make any sense, which is why the ideals of vegetarianism for animal rights aren’t logical.
Milk production prolongs a cow’s life and drags out her suffering much longer than the life of a cow raised for meat. In the end, dairy cows are immediately sent off to slaughter as soon as their milk production declines anyway or once they stop delivering calves (and therefore stop producing milk). Cows raised for milk are forced into constant cycles of forced pregnancy (rape), birth (followed by having their calves immediately sent off to veal facilities), and milk production — all of which is incredibly abusive by nature. Not to mention, dairy cows’ bodies are deprived of nutrients because all of the nutrients used to nourish their body is robbed from them when their milk is incessantly taken from them. They actually slaughter dairy cows if they start to gain weight instead of outputting milk because it’s viewed as unproductive to the dairy industry. Dairy cows are intentionally starved, essentially. Look at the physique of a meat cow versus a dairy cow and you’ll notice how malnourished and starved dairy cows are. A meat cow is simply raised and then slaughtered (which is obviously inherently cruel in itself). But… a dairy cow’s life encompasses so much more stress and mistreatment than most meat cows, and dairy is arguably much crueler of an industry than meat is. Egg-laying hens face the exact same fate — they are heavily confined and their bodies are used for massive amounts of production until their bodies are used up and depleted, then they are slaughtered anyway. Most vegetarians stop buying meat, and buy more dairy and eggs. When you consider how much cruelty goes into dairy and eggs, how can you really say vegetarianism is an improvement for the animals? If someone cuts out meat and decreases their egg and dairy production simultaneously, then yeah that makes a slight difference, but it still contributes to animal suffering. “Ignorant” is vegetarians acting as if they are knights in shining armor to the animal rights movement when they still treat animals as exploitable objects, not beings with rights.
This really isn’t about me believing I’m better than anyone, like I’ve already said. We are not fighting for the same cause — that’s what I’m trying to get you to understand. Vegetarianism is not about animal rights. If you support animal rights, that means you think animals should have the freedom to live out their lives free from abuse and that they should not be exploited and dominated by humans. If you eat or consume any animal products, that is an absolute contradiction to that statement because milk and egg production still harms animals and infringes on their most basic rights, and therefore the two concepts can’t go together.
Also, you can’t “respect” a lifestyle of someone whose actions revolve around harming others. I understand that not every person out there will go vegan, but that doesn’t change the fact that they’re being shitty people. I don’t “respect” the lifestyle and views of a racist any more than I do a purposefully cruel meat-eater.
Anyways. I find it incredibly hard to believe that you say veganism is “too expensive” for you. Veganism is actually inherently cheaper than vegetarianism and meat-eating as long as you aren’t buying all the expensive alternatives. All it takes is a little research to know what to buy and where, and it’s way easier than you’d think. If you want resources as to why dairy/eggs are cruel or to why veganism is necessary, I’ll be happy to help. If either of you genuinely care about animal rights, you’ll look into it and make the switch to veganism. Otherwise, you really are just as oppressive to animals as meat-eaters are.
Some questions for “feminists” who aren’t vegan.
I’ve been meaning to write about this for a while, because I seem to never be able to escape all of you illogical so-called feminists who aren’t vegans. I’m really trying to wrap my head around you guys. I keep coming across “feminist” blogs who are self-proclaimed cheese lovers or dairy fanatics, or feminists who are so enthralled in defending women’s rights, all while completely disregarding the ways in which they themselves are supporting an entire system that exploits billions of females’ bodies every year. The dairy industry being the main one you all seem to so shamelessly have some sort of sick infatuation with. I’m just so sick of your bullshit, I really can’t take it anymore.
I can safely assume that you all are strong proponents for body autonomy, and you all believe (as a major aspect of feminism) that no female’s body is someone else’s for the taking, right? You all so blatantly promote the idea that only the individual gets a say in what happens to her body and no one has the right to use a woman’s body or treat a woman as if she’s simply a vessel for reproduction. And this is an absolutely valid and essential fight that needs so much more attention than it currently has, I’m a feminist myself and I back these struggles 100%.
But why is it that you constantly fight for your rights to your own body, and you vehemently insist that no female’s body is up for subjugation and manipulation at someone else’s discretion, all while doing the same to countless other females? Why are you allowed to cast aside all of the plights and utter manipulation so many female animals are currently facing? What makes their suffering so different from your own, or any other woman’s? Are their bodies not being turned into machines? Are they not being objectified? Are their reproductive systems not being exploited and claimed as public property under a patriarchal system? What gives you (or anyone else) the right to have complete domination over another being’s body like that?
You cannot claim to be against the oppression of females and fight against gender inequality while eating animal products or supporting animal exploitation of any form. It’s just so absolutely outlandish given the ways that our patriarchal culture is so heavily rooted within animal agriculture. It is debatable that perhaps the animal agriculture system is where the entire patriarchal system began. Do you not understand that the meat, dairy, and egg industries flourish off of the subjugation of females and their reproductive systems? Can you not see that this entire system is built around the principle of reproductive control of female bodies and the objectification of them? They literally thrive off of female oppression. In fact, they wouldn’t even exist without it. The ways that these animals are treated is the exact same as the way human females have been treated since the dawn of time. Having compartmentalized compassion and only believing that some females should be respected as individuals is so ass-backwards I can’t even comprehend it.
Sows are thrown into gestation crates and their entire miserable lives consist of nothing more than being viewed as incubators and units of mass production. They live in stalls so narrow that they can’t even turn around, most of them spend the duration of their lives wallowing in their own feces. They are repeatedly inseminated, again and again, only to give birth to endless litters of piglets until they are “spent” and their bodies are no longer “profitable,” so they are then killed. Egg-laying hens are seen as nothing more than items and their bodies are also abused and their lives are stolen from them so that they can be forced into mass production for agricultural businesses.
Dairy cows are treated as mere milk machines. They’re continuously impregnated just like sows, and they are repeatedly milked throughout their lives. Dairy cows are intentionally kept underweight because all of the energy from the food they consume goes right out of their bodies and into the milk they secrete, which is supposed to be feeding their babies. Instead, their babies are stolen from them, their babies are slaughtered and disposed of, while the mothers are kept alive in order to be used as production vessels. Animal agriculture robs all animals of their individuality and body autonomy, but especially female animals. Female animals have arguably some of the worst treatment inflicted onto them all because of the fact that they have a uterus which deems them to a life of reproductive exploitation and commodification. Whether it’s their milk, their eggs, or simply their uterus that the government is after, being able to produce any of these things guarantees that animal a life of absolute hell as a reproductive slave.
Tell me that is not exactly what you claim to be against as a feminist. Tell me that these industries don’t profit off of the exploitation of females, I fucking dare you. If I see one more “feminist” who so proudly supports the subjugation of other females and rants about how much they just “LOoOoOoOoVe cheese and milk and eggs~!” (i.e. products which are the epitome of our patriarchal system), I’m going to have to start breaking some necks. You are not feminists. You’re fucking hypocrites and nothing more. Either fight for the right of every individual’s body autonomy and refuse to continue supporting industries that revolve around the oppression of females, or shut your mouths and admit that you don’t truly believe in equality.
Most of you know exactly what it feels like to be treated like dirt, to be told that you’re a lesser gender. You know what it means to be viewed as nothing but a body. You understand how awful it is to be objectified constantly, to be looked down on and to be cast aside all because you’re viewed as less powerful and less important and less worthy of consideration as men are. You know what it feels like to have your autonomy denied to you. So why the fuck are you turning around and doing it to these animals? By supporting animal agriculture and other industries that oppress and exploit animals, you are treating these animals exactly as I just described. You are brushing aside another female’s suffering. You’re ignoring the ways in which other females are being exploited and taken advantage of. You’re saying it’s okay to treat another female as nothing more than a body. The very things you want to destroy, you are constantly perpetuating every time you consume animal products of any kind. It is only through a vegan lifestyle that one can truly embrace feminism for what it genuinely is.
I really can’t do anything but scoff at those of you who claim to support gender equality and women’s rights all while you blindly shovel things down your throat that were produced through the rape, reproductive system manipulation, and exploitation of such a vast number of other females. Those females are just as worthy of your consideration as anyone else is. Their bodies and their lives are just as much their own as yours is. So next time, before you want to start talking about how the government needs to stay out of your body and your life, you sure as hell better make sure that your own lifestyle doesn’t entirely revolve around objectifying other females and exploiting someone else’s body.
Anonymous asked: what about a vegetarian?
No. The same concept still applies. Unless they are transitioning into veganism, vegetarianism really does nothing. Vegetarians are still supporting animal slaughter, exploitation, and abuse. Vegetarians actually frustrate me more than omnivores, because most vegetarians tend to think they’re doing something noble or helpful when their lifestyle still revolves around animal exploitation.
Vegetarianism is the same thing as, say, someone cutting out dairy products but still eating meat, all while preaching about how they are helping animals because they boycott dairy. Just because someone cuts out one product doesn’t mean they aren’t still supporting all kinds of barbaric practices in other aspects (like meat, in this case). Refraining from one harmful product such as meat while still consuming multiple other equally harmful products — such as dairy and eggs and other non-vegan products — is no better and it certainly isn’t helping the animals. It still supports animal subjugation and enslavement, and I want no part of it.
Go vegan or get the fuck outta here.
Most vegetarians: “I’m not going to consume meat because nonhuman animals’ lives are more important than my taste buds, but I’m going to consume dairy and eggs because my taste buds are more important than nonhuman animals’ lives.”
(Source: lurid-fragment)
amyquitlollygagging asked: Not only is the comment "Bet you ate more hamburgers than that fat bitch sitting in the corner of McDonald’s before you turned to the vegan lifestyle." fat-shaming, but it's also completely beside the point. Yes, I ate a lot of meat and a lot of dairy before I went vegan. I was uninformed. Most people who are now vegan were. The difference between vegans and non-vegans though is now that we're informed, we try our hardest to live a cruelty-free life, while non-vegans don't even bother.
Yep. I also don’t get why they were trying to brag about something they never even made the conscious decision to do in the first place. Obviously someone who has the convictions and the ethical capacity to change their lifestyle for the better has more character than someone who just goes along with a lifestyle they’ve always known and refuses to attempt to change when they are given a reason why they should.
Nothing is more frustrating than vegetarians who act superior to meat-eaters while still supporting massive amounts of suffering and death, which they claim to boycott. Then they throw the whole “BUT LOL CHEESE IS SOOOOO GOOD!!! I CAN’T GIVE IT UP SRY” card, which is the exact same fucking thing as the “BUT LOL BACON” line they always condemn meat-eaters for using. VEGETARIANS, GET THE FUCK WITH IT. Either stop supporting animal exploitation or shut the fuck up and accept that you’re still a bloodmouth.
32c:
I’ve been a vegetarian my whole life (never had meat eva) and if it weren’t for cheese (which is like the by-product of God), I’d be a vegan.
By-product of god? Are you kidding me? Have you seen what conditions cows have to live in and what’s done to their bodies in order to produce milk for human consumption? Have you ever watched a baby calf get dragged away from his/her mother while both of them are crying for each other, all so that you can have that milk? Have you ever watched male calves get bludgeoned to death with a pickaxe because they are of no use to the dairy industry and that’s a standard “disposal” method for baby cows? Have you ever heard a cow bellow as she’s being raped through violent artificial insemination? Do you have any idea what it takes to make cheese or any other dairy product?
Yeah, cheese tastes good, but that’s no excuse for paying for such abhorrent acts to be done on your behalf. Meat kills one animal, and that’s fucking terrible enough. Dairy, however, kills not only the mother but also all of her babies that will be born and then killed throughout her dairy production years. If anything, I would say dairy is hands down the most horrendous animal product of all, given everything that so many animals are subjected to all for one awful product.
When you consider this and take into account how much dairy most vegetarians consume in place of meat, vegetarianism is just as damaging as meat-eating, if not more so.
(Source: kaya-nyc)
