Anonymous asked: how do I explain to someone that abortion is different than eating meat? I know they are two completely separate things but I don't know how to articulate it
Same questions, different day.
http://quoilecanard.tumblr.com/post/22647561700/people-ask-me-how-im-a-vegan-and-therefore-not-okay
Anonymous asked: People ask me how I'm a vegan and therefore not okay with eating eggs yet am pro-choice. I tell them they are not the same thing. But could you please tell me all the reasons why?
When you eat eggs, you are taking something from someone else without their consent. Animal products come from the domination of another being’s body. It’s not that we oppose eating eggs because we worry about the eggs (how fucking ludicrous would that be?) — it’s because eggs came from a sentient animal who had no say in what humans did to her body. An abortion involves terminating a pregnancy within your own body, and it is a personal choice because it affects you (the pregnant person) and your life and no one else’s.
I’ll quote one of my older posts for further explanation:
“The fetus has no say in anything because a fetus is not sentient and is not even born yet. Therefore it does not exist as a human being, and has no rights because at its current stage, it is nothing but a mere cyst-like blob living within someone’s uterus. A fetus is not capable of experiencing emotions, it is not capable of feeling pain during almost all stages of the pregnancy, it is not anywhere near on the same level as an already born, sentient, feeling animal who has a life they are already experiencing with a broad spectrum of emotions and perceptions. (As a side note, in the case of late term abortions where it is questionable whether or not the fetus feels pain, in these cases it’s a matter of life or death for the pregnant person or a feeling of necessity, and since the fetus is inhabiting the pregnant person’s body and could potentially be a threat to them, it is a matter of self-defense if they do choose to have an abortion and it is therefore justifiable. Just as it would be okay to defend yourself against someone who was either attacking you or otherwise harming you, late-term abortions are also a matter of defending oneself.)
The choice of food is exempted from someone’s “right to choose” because eating meat or animal products infringes on someone else’s freedom and bodily autonomy. An abortion is the elimination of a group of cells growing inside of a pregnant person’s body. Choosing to terminate the life of something that is growing inside of you and is essentially leeching off of you, requiring you to provide your body as a vessel to sustain it, is not at all the same as going out of your way to control someone else’s body, someone else’s life, and killing someone else who is completely separate from you for something that is entirely unnecessary. Animals farmed for food and used for production are not a threat to any person and the killing and exploitation of them is not permissible.
A pregnant person who cannot or does not want to be pregnant has absolutely no obligation to remain pregnant if they don’t want to be. It is an act of self-defense or self-preservation. Exploiting, killing, and eating animals is anything but that. In order to breed and confine animals, someone must go out of their way to collect and then enslave these animals, holding them against their will. Someone who exploits animals deliberately captures and abuses the bodies and lives of so many animals. This is not at all what abortion is. You cannot even attempt to compare the two.
In the end, it all comes back to the protection of the same right: bodily autonomy. A human being has no right to violate, use, and manipulate a non-human’s body. The government (or any other person) has no right to violate someone’s rights to their own body by telling them they must remain pregnant under any circumstances. It’s no different than condemning a cow to a life of having her body dictated by the dairy and/or meat industry. Meat-eaters and anti-choicers both disregard the rights of the pregnant people and animals whose lives are the ones being directly impacted by the things they support.
Veganism is not about “preserving life.” Why do so many of you think this? A plant is alive. Bacteria is alive. Cells are alive. Vegans obviously have no opposition to the ending of any of these lives. It has nothing to do with merely life. It’s about sentient, emotional beings who are capable of complex thought and can experience fear, pain, anxiety, suffering, happiness, and so on. None of those qualities apply to fetuses. But you know who those qualities do apply to? Pregnant people and non-human animals.
So shut the fuck up, because in the case of both a pregnant person and/or an animal: it is not your life, not your body, and therefore not your choice.”
Anonymous asked: And there is one thing if forget to say is: if there should be a case of abortion man and woman should both agree to get the child killed. Why? Because it's the child of both of them so the decision should be taken by both. (except for rape ofcourse) And woman in my country have more rights when it comes down to a divorces with childeren so man and woman should be treaten equal again. If you want to be equal on the fun parts you have to become equal on the negative parts too.
No children are killed in the process of abortion, first and foremost. Maybe the reason why you have such a ridiculous stance on this is because you don’t even know what an abortion is.
If a man is the one with the uterus, and he is the one who is pregnant — then yes, it should be his say and his say alone. No woman or person of any gender should get a say in what he chooses to do with his body and whether or not he terminates his pregnancy.
Otherwise, NO. NO NO NO NO NO. Only the pregnant woman or pregnant person should get a say in their own abortion. It is THEIR body, not their partner’s. It is not a child, it is an embryo, and it is not inside of their partner’s body. It’s not going to leech off of their partner’s body for the next 9 months and it is not going to drain their partner’s mind and cause immense stress on their partner. It’s not going to cost their partner a fortune in medical bills, doctor’s visits, physical trauma, emotional trauma, and eventual delivery costs should they follow through with the pregnancy. If it is inside of your body, it is your decision. If it’s not inside of your body, it is not your decision.
Oh, I forgot to say this: go fuck yourself.
Anonymous asked: You say you're "pro-choice" (yes I know that means something specific), and yet amusingly you berate and judge people who dare to have a different "choice" (whether that be non-vegan or anything else) to you. Lol, you're a piece of shit. :3
How many times am I going to get this question? You guys just get decreasingly less intelligent as time goes on. http://quoilecanard.tumblr.com/post/15995516607/someone-who-reblogged-your-post-about-anticapitalist
Pro-choice in regards to abortion, dipshit. You know what it means. Pro-choice does not equate to “pro-having-the-choice-to-rape-and-kill-and-exploit-other-sentient-beings.” I am pro-choice because I believe in body autonomy. I am a vegan for the exact same reason. No one has the right to impose on another’s own rights or another individual’s own body. Not being a vegan means you are infringing on someone else’s life and body.
I believe that a person has the right to do what they want with their own body so long as it does not impact on another’s rights. Abortion is a personal choice because it involves the pregnant person’s body and their own health and well being is at stake in the choice to abort. I do not support the “choice” to eat meat or animal products because that would be supporting the choice to kill another separate, fully-functioning, emotional, sentient being. Consuming animal products is not a personal choice because it impacts many other beings. Abortion is a personal choice because it involves the pregnant person and the pregnant person alone.
I berate and judge people for being oppressive, just as I would berate and judge a rapist or a murderer. Passing judgment is necessary, because judging someone based on the way that they treat others and the way they treat those with less power than themselves is how we can measure a person’s character. It is crucial that we hold every person responsible for their own actions and judge their character accordingly.
Lol, you’re a fucking idiot. ;3
Anonymous asked: Someone who reblogged your post about anticapitalist said: " Your life, your body, your choice! :)" It's kinda like in abortion: it's the mother's choice to abort the fetus (who, by the way, has no say in anything but has a life of its own) -- so she has the right to do what she wants. Her actions are acceptable according to the pro-choice advocacy. You're pro-choice, right? How can the choice of food be exempted? In abortion or eating meat, lives are involved anyway. Why not let them choose?
Yeah, I’m not on that blog anymore, so I can’t reblog anyone under stfucarnists and I don’t get those notifications on my dash so I missed whatever’s been being posted around in regards to that. However I already responded to that initial post here as to why it’s not a matter of “personal choice” to eat animal products. But thanks for bringing this up in regards to abortion, because this has got to be one of the stupidest asks I’ve ever received. I’m glad you’re giving me the opportunity to point out how fucking illogical this is.
The fetus has no say in anything because a fetus is not sentient and is not even born yet. Therefore it does not exist as a human being, and has no rights because at its current stage, it is nothing but a mere cyst-like blob living within someone’s uterus. A fetus is not capable of experiencing emotions, it is not capable of feeling pain during almost all stages of the pregnancy, it is not anywhere near on the same level as an already born, sentient, feeling animal who has a life they are already experiencing with a broad spectrum of emotions and perceptions. (As a side note, in the case of late term abortions where it is questionable whether or not the fetus feels pain, in these cases it’s a matter of life or death for the pregnant person or a feeling of necessity, and since the fetus is inhabiting the pregnant person’s body and could potentially be a threat to them, it is a matter of self-defense if they do choose to have an abortion and it is therefore justifiable.)
The choice of food is exempted from someone’s “right to choose” because eating meat or animal products infringes on someone else’s freedom and bodily autonomy. An abortion is the elimination of a group of cells growing inside of a pregnant person’s body. Choosing to terminate the life of something that is growing inside of you and is essentially leeching off of you, requiring you to provide your body as a vessel to sustain it, is not at all the same as going out of your way to control someone else’s body, someone else’s life, and killing someone else who is completely separate from you for something that is entirely unnecessary.
A pregnant person who cannot or does not want to be pregnant has absolutely no obligation to remain pregnant if they don’t want to be. It is an act of self-defense or self-preservation. Exploiting, killing, and eating animals is anything but that. In order to breed and confine animals, someone must go out of their way to collect and then enslave these animals, holding them against their will. Someone who exploits animals deliberately captures and abuses the bodies and lives of so many animals. This is not at all what abortion is. You cannot even attempt to compare the two.
In the end, it all comes back to the protection of the same right: bodily autonomy. A human being has no right to violate, use, and manipulate a non-human’s body. The government (or any other person) has no right to violate someone’s rights to their own body by telling them they must remain pregnant under any circumstances. It’s no different than condemning a cow to a life of having her body dictated by the dairy and/or meat industry. Meat-eaters and anti-choicers both disregard the rights of the pregnant people and animals whose lives are the ones being directly impacted by the things they support.
Veganism is not about “preserving life.” Why do so many of you think this? A plant is alive. Bacteria is alive. Cells are alive. Vegans obviously have no opposition to the ending of any of these lives. It has nothing to do with merely life. It’s about sentient, emotional beings who are capable of complex thought and can experience fear, pain, anxiety, suffering, happiness, and so on. None of those qualities apply to fetuses. But you know who those qualities do apply to? Pregnant people and non-human animals.
So shut the fuck up, because in the case of both a pregnant person and/or an animal: it is not your life, not your body, and therefore not your choice.
kellsinki asked: I respect your opinion. But you need to not be so hostile when I'm expressing my opinion. You don't have to like or agree with it, I don't care. But for you to tear apart what I'm trying to say and make it seem like I'm unaware or in the wrong is not the way to go about an argument. You stated your point, congrats. But don't undermine me and tell me I'm wrong and hypocritical when you don't know shit about me. You wanna have a debate? Fine. But don't assume without asking first.
I was not being hostile at all. I actually edited a lot of what I said in an effort to remain less hostile. Trust me, I could have said a lot more. I was tearing apart your argument because it is based on a completely illogical standpoint. If you don’t want me to break down why your argument is useless, don’t post such a flawed opinion on a blogging site. And I’m not making it seem like you are in the wrong. You are in the wrong.
You also didn’t answer any of my questions. What’s going to happen to all of the babies that adoption agencies won’t take in? Honestly, I’m curious as to what your solution is because you seem to think I’m wrong in what I said. What are you going to say to the person who’s completely unfit to carry out their pregnancy and does not have the means, financially or emotionally or otherwise, to remain pregnant? “Sorry, but… What I say goes! Tough it up, you’ve got other options. All you have to do is just go through 9 months of hell which are going to be incredibly emotionally taxing and will place your entire body and mental health under excessive amounts of stress. You’ll also have to find a way to cough up all the money for the medical bills you’ll be racking up while pregnant. Then you’ll endure the excruciating process of labor which could last for days, all to pass your baby off to someone else. It’s easy!”
What about people who just never want to have children? Contraception is not 100% effective and getting sterilized is no easy task. So what, just tell all of those people to never have sex because if they ever accidentally get pregnant, they’re fucked since they have no alternatives to pregnancy? I don’t think so.
I don’t need to know anything about you. All I know is that you think you have the right to tell someone what to do with their own body and how to handle a situation which you will absolutely never be in and therefore have no say in. And that’s all that I needed to know.
How do you feel about abortion? I vote YES! on initiative 26 (meaning, yes I think abortion should be illegal). What do you think about abortion? Would you vote yes or no? Tell me your answers with reasons to support it. (I’ll do the same if you want)
Please tell me why you support the idea of people having no access to safe and legal abortions. You realise making abortion illegal will cost the lives of LIVING, BORN people? That they may leave behind living, born children who will suffer as a result? MORE lives will be lost if abortion become illegal. Not to mention initiative 26 would also make certain forms of contraception illegal. So you’ll have MORE unwanted pregnancies and thus MORE attempts at unsafe abortions.
More foetuses being aborted and more living, born, FEELING people dying because government’s are against them having control over their body.
Good job pro-lifers!
I just have a couple of questions for you, xobabyyouandi. I know you’ll be happy to answer them since you seem ever so informed on the subject of abortion. You anti-choicers seem to be overlooking just a couple things so I figure I’ll remind you.
When you are trying to make abortion illegal you are not talking about bringing more wanted babies into the world (which still would be terrible because we’re way too overpopulated anyway and need to be adopting not procreating… but I digress). You are trying to forcibly bring in more UNWANTED children into the world. That means more children born into poverty, more children born into abusive households, more children that will end up homeless, more children in families that are already too big to handle, more children thrown into the adoption system that is already skyrocketing out of control, more children born to single parents with no one else there to help them raise a child, more children who will end up bouncing around throughout their lives in abusive foster “homes,” more children born to rape victims and more children born from incest, more children born addicted to meth and heroin and every other drug, more disabled or unhealthy children born who will ultimately require extensive amounts of financial assistance in health care that people like you refuse to provide their parents with. You are not talking about bringing in more people who have parents that love them and want them and are going to be guaranteed a safe home with plenty of food who will have a fair chance at life and will be given opportunities like most of us were lucky enough to have. You’re talking about bringing in more children who will be doomed from the very start. You’re also talking about destroying the lives of so many people who are unfit to be parents.
You’re thinking of forcing people to have babies that they cannot handle, financially or mentally. You’re potentially forcing someone to go through what may very well be the most traumatic experience of their life all because you for some bizarre reason think you are entitled to dictate their bodies and their sex lives. How dare you have the audacity to try to take away so many forms of birth control and then at the same time deny people their abortion rights.
So tell me, how are we going to afford to take care of this surplus of babies when we can’t even handle the population we already have now? Who’s going to pay for all the extra child birth costs and all of the extra welfare and financial assistance that these unplanned parents will now require? Who’s going to adopt the ones that no one else will? All of the babies that are not white and born in perfect health free of disease, who’s going to take those in? Because you do know that many adoption agencies will turn away anything but those so-called “perfect” babies, don’t you?
Who’s going to pay for all of the medical costs for all of the people who end up hospitalized after they attempt illegal abortion procedures risking their lives (and obviously also the fetus so you lose there too)? Who’s gonna pay for counseling for all of the rape victims now forced into the trauma of carrying a constant reminder of their attack growing inside their body day by day? Who’s going to pay for counseling of other people who are just not mentally or physically able to carry out a pregnancy in general? But more importantly, who’s going to carry all these babies to term for the people who are unable to carry out a pregnancy? Are you now offering up your body as an incubator for each and every person who doesn’t want to go through an unwanted pregnancy? Because with that kind of attitude, you and every other anti-choicer sure as hell better be. You cannot deny people birth control and then on top of that deny them alternatives to pregnancy. That just makes no fucking sense.
Seriously, get the fuck out of other peoples’ lives and other peoples’ bodies. You have no idea what a pregnant person is going through or why each person may consider abortion, and you have absolutely no right to try to pretend that you do and limit their options to birth control and/or abortion.
- How many years do you consider to be a fair prison term for a woman who has an abortion?
- How many years for a doctor who performs one?
- Will the punishments be greater the second time around?
- Where will the state get the money necessary to prosecute one-third of all American women for this crime?
- Forty-two percent of women who have an abortion have incomes below 100 percent of the federal poverty level (that’s $10,830 for a single woman with no children, if you’re counting). When women are forced to have children they cannot afford to raise, will those children become wards of the state or simply new Medicaid recipients? Where will the state find the money necessary to support them?
- Will you be willing to watch your wife die in front of you when her life is threatened by an unsafe pregnancy that no one is allowed to do anything about? Your daughter?
- Will rapists have to pay child support to women who are forced to have their children?
- Will the child of incest be in the custody of its rapist father or the father’s teenaged daughter, his mother? In fact, 18 percent of women who have an abortion in America are teenagers. Will they be required to drop out of high school to raise their children or will the state provide free childcare?
- Will upper-class white women be prosecuted as vigorously as other women who have abortions?
- You are aware that upper-class white women have abortions, aren’t you?
(Source: msmagazine.com, via lavenderlabia)
So the personhood amendment would make a fertilized egg have all the same rights as a human, correct? With that logic, a fertilized egg would need to abide by the same laws as we do, right? Now to further on the point, a person cannot force another person to be attached to you so you can live off them. Wouldn’t that mean that if I was pregnant, and I plain and simple did NOT want that baby there, the baby would be breaking the law, thus would justify an abortion? I mean, there’d be no other way to get the law breaker out of there.
Just curious, but please reply or correct me if I’m wrong here
?
BRILLIANT.
